Judge Joe Brown & Cheap Wedding Photographers
Posted on Mar 3, 2010 | 18 commentsPlease take ten minutes of your day and watch this video – trust me, its so worth it. It’s a perfect example of two women who are mediocre photographers trying to market themselves as professional wedding photographers and failing to provide quality images to their clients. In a nut-shell these women are very inexperienced and really should stay away from weddings until they learn more and can live up to their client’s expextations.
My favorite line from the video was when Judge Joe Brown (who really knows his photography, btw) asks the woman about her lens and says “what speed is it” … her response was “I don’t know”. Seriously? And you call yourself a professional? The Judge also noted that the images were very pixelated and couldn’t be enlarged … perhaps they did a bit (LOT) of creative cropping to compensate for their lack of composing correctly in-camera?
The sad part is that these women actually think they did a good job, the Judge isn’t afraid to tell them what he thinks of their equipment, photos and their “professionalism” and it’s very clear how he feels when he gives his ruling. I hope they learned their lesson.
Here’s an interesting look at some of the “professional’s” work:
http://www.photographypros.com/midland_mi/index.php
I saw this earlier. Its really sad these days that there are a lot of crappy photographer in our market bringing us down. Sure a wedding can be done with a kit lens and a rebel, but you are going to have to know really what you are doing.
Terribly short-sighted. I can’t believe the photographers would take it that far–they’ll never get a job again! They obviously aren’t in the right frame of mind to succeed at much of anything.
(But, it’s also pretty silly to harp on the equipment so much. Put a Canon Rebel with a kit lens in the right hands, and the pictures would still be impressive.)
I am floored. The attitude, not withstanding the work, that those women had. I really just don’t have any words. Thanks for sharing this.
Same things goes for every sphere of work. Great tools doesn’t mean great services. You still need talent and knowledge to be a professional. Just take a look at how many web designer out there that are doing bad design using photoshop. Always ask for reference work before hiring someone.
I think of myself as a fairly decent photographer and I’m comfortable doing simple portraits because lighting can be controlled easily. I wouldn’t even think of shooting a wedding yet. I know what I would expect to see and lack the confidence and experience to attempt to shoot a wedding. I think these women got off easy.
I would prefer to maybe start as an assistant for someone, then maybe a second shooter, responsible for shots of the details (table settings, flowers, etc.), then try it on my own for a small wedding.
Haha, that is lovely. Had a good laugh.
But the clients seems pretty sketchy to, and its kinda their own fault, doesnt seem like they had actually seen the photogs work before.
(Doesnt mean i think its ok for those ladies to call themselves professionals, though. This kinda shit is a big problem in this buisniess these days)
Based on their attitude, I’m willing to bet they did not learn their lesson and truly believe the verdict was unfair.
WoW! And I love how they have the NERVE to defend themselves! that poor bride! And she is only suing for $1000?! I would sue for all they are worth ;)
And seriously? they have some nerve….SOME COCKY self confidence to deem themselves professionals! I mean their equipment is in a starter kit! I mean not that that is a bad thing ( I myself am working around with a Canon XS start skit) but to use that for ‘professional’ wedding photography? And on top of that charge $1,300!!!!! If they charged $130 that would be more reasonable! :p
*gets worked up* lol
That was… very entertaining, thought provoking and shows that, as a professional, in any occupation that one should not get “emotionally involved” … you should know the “tools’ of the trade.
The Camera aside, (I shoot with an XTi), the fact that they didn’t know the speed of the 70-300 which I bet you a buck is the Sigma 70-300 f/4-5.6. Their arrogance upsets me and makes me frustrated that a pair like that goes from saying they’ve shot hundreds at the beginning of the piece around the 3 minute mark, then at 8:03 the heavier woman says “we’ve only done 1 in our career” So which is it?
Sorry…i’m having a hard time making a “ruling” based on the images the judge is flashing around. Seemed pretty clear to me that he had it “in” for the two photographers. Couldn’t tell from his hectoring, berating behavior what their real story was. His lesson seemed to be that you must have top gear to call yourself a professional. I disagree. I believe the 2nd Geese woman was referring to them having attending only 1 wedding show, not wedding shoots. It is clear to all of us — without watching the video — that if we are professional (meaning being paid to do a job) then we should act and execute as Professionals. What I did learn from the video was not to watch Judge Joe Brown!
Hello
I can tell you that we have the same problem here in Sweden with a lot of people called “photographers” and selling wedding photo very cheap and with bad quality. We have decider to go to the tax authority with all the webbsites where we expect that they are working “black” without paying tax.
Master of Photography Lennart Nilsson (a friend of Kenneth Linge)
http://www.ateljemarie.se
I am really disappointed that some fine photographers are pointing to this episode as an example for all professional (and “want to be” professional wedding photographers) to heed.
Maybe the message we are to take away from this that to ever be paid to take pictures at a wedding you have to (1) have the best gear possible, (2) you have to know all terminology and gear specs off the top of your head and (3) have to assume all of your photos will need to be enlarged – a lot.
I like to think good pictures are made by the photographer and not the gear. At least that is what many of these same wonderful photographers have been preaching in their blogs, books, interviews and podcasts.
What would have been more appropriate here would have been for the “Judge” to ask to see the samples given to the client when the hiring decision was made and examine those in comparison to the finished product and see what the contract may have stipulated about any of this. If the pics given the client were inferior to the samples shown and the contract indicated they should have been similar, then he could have ruled for the plaintiff. I bet, though, they looked a lot alike.
It could be that instead of getting “professional” advice about our hobby or career from a television show, perhaps we should remember the show is produced for “entertainment.” In that vain, it is no different than professional wrestling – there is a clear “good guy”, in this case the plaintiff and a clear “bad guy” in this case a photographer with a really bad attitude. The bad guy lost because that is how it is supposed to go for the viewers to be entertained and not because she did not take the type of pictures she promised – and certainly not because she did not have a top of line DSLR.
“(2) you have to know all terminology and gear specs off the top of your head and (3) have to assume all of your photos will need to be enlarged – a lot.”
Last weekend I shot a wedding with my highly professional assistant and both of us would know exactly which body and lens was used for each image and could probably pick the f-stop for each image too.
And we certainly shoot expecting each one to be the winner the bride want enlarged – a lot.
Incidentally our kit was 4x Canon 5D (5Dmk11), 2x 70-200mm F2.8, 17-40mm F4, 85mm F1.8, 50mm F1.8 and a 24-105 F4. As well as Canon 580ex11 strobes. And yup a tripod was used.
My wife and I saw this video. We both had mixed reactions.
My reaction was these photographers were really not professionals. I personally would probably taken a loss before going on national television. That stunt had to hurt their business.
The photographers should have know their equipment a lot better along with their limitations. The limitations should have probably put into the contract as well. That way both parties are getting what they agreed upon. It would have given the bride a chance to try to pick another photographer. I would have to say I always test new gear and figure out limitations before I am on location. Not doing that brings to much risk and liability.
I have been both situations during the wedding ceremony. Some priest do not like flash during the ceremony, and some do. It really depends on the situation. They should have used a tripod at least for a couple of them. I do not really believe the bride about the priest telling the guest not using flash because it would ruin the professional pictures. That statement was really hard to swallow.
My wife’s reaction was totally different. Her view point was any bride could get the pictures and say they were not happy with the quality. That concerns me as well.
Rob – did you also charge $1000 or less for the shoot with this equipment?
Most important of all of this is, did you expect the client to compare (subconsciously or consciously) the resulting photos with the samples you showed them before the shoot? Would you have thought it unreasonable for the client to expect his/her pictures to be far superior to those samples?
I would wholeheartedly agree better pics would have been made with better equipment and a tripod. Of course, Jose Villa, Cliff Mautner or Ben Chrisman would have made better pictures than the defendant using the exact same equipment that they did. So again, it is not the equipment or lack thereof that should be the focus here.
Do we really want to send the message that if one wants to be a professional, they must get the top of the line camera and likely upgrade every year or two (oh, it may be that a DSLR is not good enough, you need a medium format Hasselblad, or is a large format necessary? It could be only film will render the necessary quality, right now I would think it very unclear) and the fastest lenses available no matter the price is an absolute necessity. To do otherwise would seem to mean that, no matter how good or bad your photos, you will not be a professional and every client can instantly demand a refund. Further, you better understand that your sample book/portfolio is meaningless – the client is totally correct in thinking the resulting photos will meet any standard they so choose and they do not even have to share that standard with you beforehand.
I never would have guessed this was what we should expect as professional photographers. No wonder so many wedding photographers look so haggard.
Although the quality of the photographs may not have been great (though, it’s impossible to tell from the clip), the real dispute should have been about what the quality level was compared to the quality of the photos that the bride saw in their portfolio prior to hiring them. If the bride saw mediocre photos in the portfolio, she should expect to get mediocre photos. If she saw great photos (which I think she mentioned), but got mediocre photos of her wedding, then I think that should be what they should have delved into. Was there some level of deception involved on the part of the photographer? Was the bride trying to make up for not doing her due diligence in researching the photographer’s work? I don’t know. Questioning the photographer about how fast her lens is or what camera she used is beside the point and is really only used for entertainment value. I guess, in the end, the lesson to wedding photographers (especially lousy ones) is to make sure to properly set expectations before you step foot in the church.